Who deserved Jing?

[Zhou Yu]

This poll is to settle the debate me and yanos have had for a long time now who really deserved to take over Jing province. Because it was the source of the problems between Wu and Shu.

bit of background
Shu thought they should inherit it as Liu Bei was related to Liu Biao and Biao son was one of his followers.
Wu after winning Chi Bi decided after all those troops lost and the effort they put into it they should get jing. They attacked it and after a long battle nearly took jing. But then Liu Bei took all the towns behind there back. So it eventually came to war, but if it could have decided diplomatically who do you think should have got it.

I added Wei as well as technically Liu Biao other son surrendered it to Cao Cao without a fight. So if you think he really deserved it vote for Wei.

So vote for whoever you think had the most right to it. As for me i think Wu was. This is based on the novle and game not history so dont bring that into it.

[jing]

Although I have like no knowledge of any of this, from the info given, I believe that Wu should obtain the Jing province. It just seems that Wu actually deserves the actual territory if they like struggled at Chi Bi and stuff for it. Gaining the province just because of inheritance, from a distant family member, is kinda lame.


P.S.: Don't mind Grammar. I'm sneaking this post in school.

[yanosaudren]

I have to say Shu. Though I think Wei deserve it as well.
Shu betrayed Wu to take it, but as Wu had tried several times to kill them I think this is more than fair. They were not really allies, and as such Shu had more of a claim for Jing than Wu did.

[Xiu Lao]

Nov 25, 2008 18:35:55 GMT @yanosaudren said:

I have to say Shu. Though I think Wei deserve it as well.
Shu betrayed Wu to take it, but as Wu had tried several times to kill them I think this is more than fair. They were not really allies, and as such Shu had more of a claim for Jing than Wu did.

SEE!!!! now I pity the Fools that said "Shu and Wu where allies like brothers" YEAH! they aren't allies so duh! Wu was tricked and they weren't noticing.

according to history... Sun Qaon tried to kill Liu Bei before Chi bi, bcoz he also wanted to take his army. Liu Bei also was asked many times by Ma Su who asked him "you faced Cao Caos Troops, how many are they?"

and Liu Bei never answered Wu's Questions, Zhuge Liang wanted to take Advantage of them, not brother them! ahaha! this is makes me laugh!

[zhanghe]

I would hav to say wei cuz they kinda took jing over without a fight so they must be quite a deserving nation to be able a whole province so easily .

[Xiu Lao]

Wasn't that Zhang Liao who took it before Cao Ren joined him?

[Zhou Yu]

No it was Cao Cao how took over Jing personally from Liu Zong who he then had murdered.

[Xiu Lao]

honestly... I heard that first Sun Jian Had it before he died, it appears that Liu Stole it and then Cao Cao took it form him.

[yanosaudren]

OK for those who have not read the novel i shall as briefly as possible try to describe the whole Jing situation

Sun Jian had part of it and tried to take the rest of Liu Biao. Liu Biao killed him and Wu left and eventually joined Yuan Shu for some reason.
(acording to the novel) When Liu Biao died it was meant to go to Liu Qi, which would have meant Liu Bei taking it.
But instead there was a sort of rebellion. Liu Zong (i think thats he name?) took over instead, and under the threat of invasion gave everything to Cao Cao.

Wei Yan disagreed with this and started his own rebellion, and asked Liu Bei to take over Jing instead. Liu Bei refused as it would have meant fighting Liu Zong, he nephew (sort of). Liu Bei left and joined with Wu and Cao Cao took over and quickly had Liu Zong killed.

Finally, Wei lost at Chi Bi and Shu and Wu both wanted Jing. Shu let Wu try first, but when Wu had almost beaten Wei in Jing Shu snuck in and took it all. This could be considered at a betrayal but Wu did try to kill Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang first.

Thats why i think Wu have no claim to Jing. Wei have a claim through Liu Zong and Shu have a claim over Liu Qi, but the only reason Wu should have gotten it was because they tried to take it??? where is the logic in that!

[wukong]

It's called WAR! Territory is won and lost. How is that NOT logical?

Wu worked the hardest, so by that logic they deserve Jing. HOWEVER, Shu sneaking in and "betraying" Wu is all just a part of war.

"All's fair in love and war."

[Xiu Lao]

Dec 6, 2008 4:35:05 GMT wukong said:

It's called WAR! Territory is won and lost. How is that NOT logical?

Wu worked the hardest, so by that logic they deserve Jing. HOWEVER, Shu sneaking in and "betraying" Wu is all just a part of war.

"All's fair in love and war."

aww... is the little Lu Xun trying to explain to us how things should go here? or he needs someone to put the logical things in front of his face? come on dont cry and whine for it...since when you Tried to take it from Wei? was it Victor? or loss?

(sorry Joking this time, just trying to show how Lao hate's Lu XD)

[Zhuge Liang]

Liu Bei deserved it through family ties. However if you want to look at it tactically, I believe he with the best Strategy deserved. Wu may have taken the direct approach to gain Jing, but Shu used a different ploy and got Jing in the end. To call it betrayal would seem hollow, because Wu never actually had control of Jing when Shu took it.

[wukong]

It's like I said. There is no "deserving" anything. It all boils down to who can get and keep control of the territory. In this case, Shu pulled it off, fair and square.

[Xiu Lao]

Dec 11, 2008 6:59:09 GMT wukong said:

It's like I said. There is no "deserving" anything. It all boils down to who can get and keep control of the territory. In this case, Shu pulled it off, fair and square.

haha... maybe your right, but you know that Jing belongs to Wei when Cao Cao took it form Liu after he surrendered, how can you say there is NO hard work in that? come on you know...

and seriously Cao pi... this is a bad Choice to make it a poll bcoz everyone will talk about his own kingdom here.

[Zhou Yu]

Dec 11, 2008 16:15:42 GMT Xiu Lao said:

and seriously Cao pi... this is a bad Choice to make it a poll bcoz everyone will talk about his own kingdom here.

I don't really care who they talk about the point is to get everyone point of veiw and try to settle the argument me and Yanos have about it.

And Lu Xun in that way you could say Wu deserve it more because they got the lands back after Guan Yu died.

But i think it should have been theirs because Shu agreed to let them try and take it off Wei. They beat the Wei army only to find Shu men on the walls of all the cites. Thats just base treachery really especially from Shu with all there pretenses of virtue.