Burai's feedback

[Yen Wang (Burai)]

{Fyi You may feel that I repeated myself alot in this post. That is because I wanted to make a point. Freedom of speech}

I just wanted to add my two cents in! The thread was locked .


I understand everyone is having mixed feelings about Zhalia's suggestions. Honestly I don't understand why everyone is getting so bent up out of shape for it. She is entitled to her own opinion. Just as everyone has the right to have theres. I wish i was on more so I could've voiced my opinion sooner.

As I previously said, I don't understand why everyone is being so immature about this. Zhalia suggestions were just that. She has her own reason to why she feels that way and she was kind enough to share her wisdom. Even if it wasn't asked for. For people to get so offensive about it, is just ludicrous. No one has to agree with her, but there is no need to agrue. (That goes for everyone, mostly cbox)

Despite what anyone says the site is still up and kicking. So why change the something if it isn't broke. I do apprecaite those who were polite about it and didn't critize. I just want to take the time and thank the selected few. ;D "Thank you"


{EDIT: Also if she wants to help out or even considered to be part of the staff, she would have to learn to be nice, polite and work as a team. I cannot accept views unless they are positive.}

Needless to say I that this was alittle unnecessary. I thought she was very polite. I know I have a color vocabulary and heck I could've showed it in this post. Not everything is going to be positive. Zhalia didn't say anything negative that was directly toward anyone, in her posts. She simply voiced her own opinion. Saying that is not call for.

She even mentioned that the board seemed to be fixed in its ways. (She didn't say that way was wrong, again she offered helpful suggestions) I fail to see how she was trying to force her ideas on anyone, when she didn't think anyone would even listen to her suggestions.

Which brings me to the "If you don't like it here, then go make your own board.", or "If you don't like it here, go rp somewhere else." Its not like she just came out and said this place sucks(if she did, let me know and I'll revise and apologize.)

Lastly the whole Sun Ce thing... She has nothing to do with that. This is not on that scale. She is not being disrespectful about it at all. It just her own opinion.

To wrap it up, cause its going on 5 am. I been him for over a year going on two. I am overall pleased with the board, I like the people here, fun to rp etc. There are still some things I don't agree with. Like the color button disapearing, but it came back.

I don't expect any drastic changes soon. I'm a patient guy, and people have their own lives etc, etc, but I do believe that some people could of handled themselves better. That is what upset me the most.

Let me apologize if this offended anyone. Have a personal comment feel free to im me or pm. Have something you want to add feel free to post.

[Hiei]

NOTE: I AM NOT STARTING A FLAME WAR HERE.

Alright, I still have a bit of opinions too. A bit on the suggestions and a bit on the following outcomes. And this time, because I'm not so sleepy, stressed out by exams, and all this bleh, I'm gonna drive into this matter from both angles.

Looking back at her suggestions now, I kinda see what she's trying to point out. There is a lot of mess in this board and although the systems the board offers are efficient and well-thought, they are, somewhat, messily presented. The board could use a wipe, but not a complete wipe-out. A complete wipe-out would be quite unfair to the older members too. Inactive member accounts could be deleted, including their bios and the likes. Systems and rules could also be altered and made into a more presentable and thus appealing manner.

I personally had a bit of a problem with the board's lay-out, cause it was hard for me to find the rules and information about this forum among the many announcements in the same board.

Though, this can be quite a demanding process that requires a lot of time and effort. With that said, I am more than willing to offer my services in cleaning up the member list and also neatening up the board. I will not change any systems, but just make it more presentable, in a way, like using tables and lists and the likes. And I will, of course, surrender my powers once my round of clean-up is done.

The Games... Well, I've yet to decide upon a real side for this, for having DW-themed games can be quite effective in adding the DW feeling upon the board, but it also limits the kinds of games that would be allowed for this board. And besides, having just a single theme may tend to become dull after a long-run, as seen in FF: JE, when only two people participated in their Caption Contest #10.

As for Roleplay, character originality and storyline, I'm gonna assess this one by one. Character originality, I agree, can be quite an annoying thing to see. Rip-offs from other games, for example, the most commonly used Sasuke-theme, can get quite annoying, yes, but it would be the RPer's choice of what he wants his character to be. Storyline-wise, I believe, it'd be best that we create and develop our own general story-line, for that way, our board would be more original than the other boards. And originality is a plus.

And in the IC-system, there are things that we cannot control, like the decisions of the role-player. After all, I believe it was said here that the canon character's decisions are controlled by the role-player, though major decisions have to be run through with the staff first. At this point, I believe that my reply to Zhalia would be to RP. Such an IC problem can be solved too, with the right direction IC-wise, like a little plotting there and a little nudging there. We can always bring the Suns back to power, after all.

You also cannot blame the staff for randomly choosing Lute to be leader. The board needs to keep going on and to do so, it requires activity from all three leaders. Lute was probably the most active Wu member then, so he was chosen. What's done is done. We can still change it, though, not by OOC powers, but using roleplay.

And now, for the events that occurred afterwards...

Yes, I do confess that I was being a little critical towards you, but I do not believe that my actions were totally uncalled for. Unnecessary, true, but plausible at the same time. You had a lot of ideas, yes, but even the best ideas can be denied and shot down if the presentation is wrong, which goes in real life too. Words are powerful weapons and I have to comment, the tone you used and your choice or words made you seem more critical and hostile than hospital.

Please do not take this as a personal insult, but a suggestion to you and future idea-providers, the people that reads your ideas have their own mindsets too. To have the proper idea sent across, you'd have to really be persuasive and at the same time polite, for only then will readers try to look at your idea at another point. Take me, for example. When I read your suggestion thread, Zhalia, your tone struck me as critical, which was why I shot back with equal criticism. I was wrong, of course, but such a reaction is merely human. Of course, you would shoot back yourself and a flame war almost ensued [which would be my first].

However, when I started to converse with you in the C-Box, you were more open and hospital there, which then prompted me to read your suggestion board again, thus realising that you had a lot of good points among your suggestions. And thus, I do stress the point that sometimes, the presentation of ideas is more important than the idea itself, because words affect emotion, and emotion affects perspectives of your ideas. I would know; I take courses is social skills, am my school council's Public Relations Officer and I'm going to take up a course in Mass Communications next year.

We're all human, and we make mistakes; mistakes due to human emotion and understandable pride. I've made mine towards you, Zhalia, and for that, I too apologise. Yeah, I apologise for my unnecessary critical additions to my replies. It was quite immature.

Burai is right too. You are entitled to your own opinion, just like everyone else. However, it was quite unnecessary to call the Sun Sisters' decision to defect a completely bad one. They have their reasons, after all. Maybe it was best that you inquired them of their decision before doing so? Anyway, yeah.

We clear now, ya? ^_^

P.S.... Can someone brief me about this Sun Ce issue? I'm curious. =3

[Zhalia Anastasiya Neqa'el]

I'm glad the both of you decided to stand up for this.

It has led me to this post, which will hopefully open the eyes of several people as to the errors of what they have done.

Perhaps then, it will start some better things here.

Lu Xiang stated that this forum is run democratically. Yet I'm afraid I saw little of this in the thread.

A democracy is a government by the people, through elected officials.

This means, or at least it's supposed to mean, that the common people of the forum will choose to elect others as their representatives among the staff members.

To put it simply, we are provided with a listing of names, we vote on who we think is the best for the job, and they become a staff member to better help out.

However, unfortunately, I have not seen evidence of this. The way I see it, the current staff members, or even the admin by himself, chooses who they want on the staff, and then informs us of it.

That is not a democratic action. It is, in fact, the method used by Communist China's Politburo. I am not making this up, for those of you who may be skeptical.

In Communism, for a brief lesson in government, the representatives of one group elect those of another, higher office, who in turn elect the General Secretary, who in effect, is the leader of the country. This view was reversed by Joseph Stalin, in which the General Secretary chose those of the lower groups.

In China, this was the same, until recent times, when the Politburo members were allowed to vote in new people.

And I'm sorry to have to tell you guys this, but that is the way it appears to work here.

But that is in how staff members are chosen. Now let's move to suggestions.

I made a suggestion for discussion among the members. A few, who happened to be here at the time, got to participate. However, look at the way the staff acted. There was no discussion on their part. The main thing you guys said was simply "No." to what you objected to.

I can respect that. No was your opinion to things. That's fine. But, when the Admin came in, the first thing he did was ridicule and equate me with someone named Sun Ce, who apparently is so godawful that the rest of you are supposed to know who he is.

To me, from what I read in that post, as well as what I've since been told in PM by a few that I would consider friends, it really appears as if Sun Ce is being used as a crutch.

When a person steps up with some idea that the staff violently reacts to, they close in on themselves and totally reject the idea. With the excuse that, Sun Ce was so bad, look at this person, they are just as bad for even suggesting it. And since Sun Ce was so bad, those who know who he is hesitate to step forward themselves, for fear of being branded "Sun Ce" for their ideas.

That is oppression in it's most insidious form. To me, at least.

But I'm not concerned with that. What concerns me is that the thread itself was actually locked. To prevent other members from even being able to come in and say they are for or against the idea.

Look at what Burai had to do. He agreed with me on parts of it, but because of this, he had to create an entirely new thread, just so his voice could be heard.

To dip into more governmental theory, and looking at this place from an outside perspective, I can't help but think that it is drifting farther and farther from democratic action, in favor of other methods.

To quote another definition;
Fascism - A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government.

Authoritarian - Characteristic of an absolute ruler or absolute rule.

Hierarchical - Classified according to various criteria into successive layers.

I'm really not trying to offend you guys by bringing up terms like Communism and Fascism in this thread, but seriously, it's what can be seen.

The way the staff shuts down ideas before the members can get their say, that is evidence of absolute rule. We make suggestions, rightly enough. You don't deny us that.

But if the suggestion is something you as a group are against, then you are wholly against it, and, by Admin's actions, lock the suggestion down, so it can't even be discussed by us. What if the majority of the membership liked my ideas? Now the only way they can have their voices heard is by starting additional threads, as Burai has been forced to.

To add in something else here, you talk about staff discussions and updates...but have you actually gotten a vote from all the members on this stuff? Shouldn't you, as a democracy, show us all of the changes you want to make on the forum, and then allow us to vote, to decide whether we want it or not?

Look at the thread, thus far.

1 person was wholly against a single part, but didn't talk about the rest at all.
1 person stepped up advocating two separate parts.
Another person was against most of the ideas, but in this very thread as reconsidered his views, due to rereading it, and likely the discussion itself.

And then you have three staff members all seemingly violently against the entire thing.

So if you take that, it's several of the people who are for this, plus the addition of Burai and myself.

That seems to warrant the allowance of further discussion. The membership as a whole should be allowed to express their concerns or approval for this. That is how democracy is supposed to work.

I will again express my concerns that this thread will be locked and subsequently censored. I'm only hoping that by reading this post, you will realize how far the system is currently skewed and work to rectify that.

[Liao Wei]

Just adding my two cents.. websites are not run democratically, and nor should they be. Officially voting in members of staff would just turn into a popularity contest, rather than having someone who is potentially capable (and obversely sometimes just choosing your buddies to be staff can have equal disaster). People create these sites to have their slant on the games, and hope people will appreciate that slant enough to join. Thats not to say the staff should be tyrannical, they should be respectful of suggestions and opinions, 'cause discussion is the birthplace of innovation, but the final resting decision should always ultimately rest with the top. Let people make their own mistakes, but still give them respect. People shouldn't go around to others houses telling them how to raise their family or construst their living space.

Incidentally I agree with most of the suggestions made, and would happily support some change, I just believe everythings gotten way out of hand, hence my little piece above.

[Lu Xiang]

*cough*

Just drop it now please?
I accept your points and appologize but now your just blowing out of proportion. It really didn't need to go this far to be honest. Call it what you want, we work for the members not for ourselves. I am no longer arguing and any more threads going up will only cause more chaos, do not want and do not need.

Your points are being considered and evaluated. I cannot say they will be all accepted and to be fair Admin had the right to be angry at you, not to call you Sun Ce. But to be fair you kinda annoyed me too. I don't mind positive feedback and nice suggestions much like Burai and Liao Wei. But i find yours rude and very arrogant.. perhaps its just me? I don't know.

Either way if you wish to still carry on the conversation please find somewhere else to do it, i do not wish for the forums to become a battleground, your points have been accepted. I have posted a thread in the staff area and PM'd admin to work on a new update asap. No more needs to be said, if things change its up to Admin now and out of my hands. Your co-oporation would be nice from here forth.

Once again i apologize on behalf of myself and anyone else.

[Lewis]

Oooooook Ladies and Gents I'm now going to try and uplift this subject
First of all I had no idea that this (hate to say it) Sun Ce 'thing' has become a big issue and I would definitely like to apologise for that, I'm sorry.
I wanna make this short.
I do agree with Lu Xiang about this being blown out of proportion but at the moment we are discussing the new update which will be happening and we have now apologised, which I hope you accepted. To be honest now I don't think we can do much more, we have hight-lighted which specific suggestions a few members seem to be supporting and we are taking action. However please be patient as it wont be happening in the next week or so but it should be up in the next two weeks.
I hope this clears everything up and as Lu Xiang said I don't want this thread to become a battleground so any further suggestions please PM me.

[Da Qiao]

Guys, I do not comment often on the suggestions, but I do want to clarify a couple of things.

STAFF do work. I am staff because I joined during one of the lowest points of activity and ideas and everything on this board. I gave suggestions and was offered a position. I have worked my butt since then to try and make a nurturing environment for rps.
This being said, I am not the most active member on the board and I have had better moments of activity. No offense but I take the time to read everything and it keeps me VERY busy, so I don’t join threads often.

However, unfortunately, I have not seen evidence of this. The way I see it, the current staff members, or even the admin by himself, chooses who they want on the staff, and then informs us of it.
I made a suggestion for discussion among the members. A few, who happened to be here at the time, got to participate. However, look at the way the staff acted. There was no discussion on their part. The main thing you guys said was simply "No." to what you objected to.

Like staff on every other forum: we watch people’s activity, we picked people who were active and AROUND for a long time, they were given responsibility. We have our own board and discuss things THERE. We do work. I felt no need to comment on the suggestions board because I (YES ME) made a discussion in staff about the topics presented.

No we are not going to go completely democratic. No system has ever been completely democratic AND worked. General law of people: just because a mass amount of people believe or want something doesn’t mean it’s good or that it works. But we are not a communist regime either. Anyone who has been a member for a long time as seen the MANY changes made to the board based on people’s ideas. That’s the story behind the OLD Sun Ce character. He monopolized on that.

PLEASE, the staff want suggestions and opinions. We are not magic people who spend our lives trying to perfect rps. Personally, I balance a lot of personal things including college, kids and 2 jobs. Just because we don’t respond, doesn’t mean we don’t read it, and it doesn’t mean we dismissed it.

[shangxiangluvr23]

They don't understand that everyone on this board has a life. and that life doesn't completely revolve around this forum. This site is for people to have FUN, if anyone forgot what that means. It isn't about being historically correct,even though its a plus, its still not needed. Even though this issue(i think) is cleared up, this shouldn't EVER happen again. If you have a problem, don't rally up people and attack the staff. If your gonna do that then you shouldn't even be on this forum. NO ONE told you that you had to rp here. I know this was once a civil matter, but it just turned into a disaster. This could be resoved better if you just simply PMed the admin about your suggestion.

[Wei Ning]

(Holds everyones hands and sings a happy loving song)